(TLDR, so skip to the end for a summary, even though I would suggest reading the whole thing) I know, I know, itâs been talked to death. Yes, K-POP was always westernized. Yes, K-pop has always been built on the backbone of Black American music. Yes, people who complain about it now are often applying double standards. But thatâs not exactly what this post is about, or at least, not only what itâs about. Because, sure, K-POP has always been influenced by Western music, we know that. But then, why are so many people now more vocal and disproportionately annoyed about it? Why do people who were totally fine with it before suddenly feel alienated? It could be classic gatekeeping. Iâm a metal fan too, and this kind of thing happens in every fandom. As soon as something becomes significantly more popular, itâs like it loses its identity. Itâs no longer a âlittle secret,â and for some fans, thatâs a problem. And these conversations started indeed with the global expansion. Maybe some people are just getting bored with the music and trying to find a reason why, since K-POP has been such a big part of their playlists for years. Maybe what they really miss is the visual aspect only, which is the aspect that has been changed the most (but that has changed in the West tremendously as well), and project this on the music as well. But personally, I think the biggest reason is that K-POP still follows Western music trends, but now it follows them at the same time, not with a delay. In a way, we see both industries co-influence each other, and not K-POP follow American trends after the trend has slowed down or even ended in the West. 2010-2015 K-POP was Ressision Pop repackaged I bring up this era specifically because Iâve noticed that a lot of people who complain about âWesternizationâ in K-pop now are actually second-gen stans, and many of them were fans of those big, bold, maximalist tracks. And this is also around the time I started listening to K-pop, so itâs the era I first got into as well. Let me start by saying that Iâm not a native English speaker. For me, the biggest difference between K-pop and American Western pop, music-wise, was always the language, but since neither is my native tongue, that alone never made one feel drastically different from the other (even more so because when I was 12-13 I was not fluent in English as I am now). Sonically, K-pop was never reinventing the wheel, the package was different. A lot of the classic, iconic, maximalist K-pop songs from 2010â2015 sound very much like 2007â2010 recession-era pop from the West. Take a listen to the instrumentals of Venus by Shinhwa and Break Your Heart by Taio Cruz & Ludacris. No, theyâre not the same song, itâs not plagiarism in the slightest, but they clearly come from the same pool of sound. If someone listens to these instrumentals side by side, and has no idea which is which, it's not clear which one is the K-pop track. That heavily processed, synthy, maximalist, club-ready production style was all over the charts in the West some years before it dominated K-pop. Groups like BIGBANG, 2NE1, T-ara, 4Minute, KARA, all drew inspiration from recession pop. And just to be clear (because I know K-pop fans can transform into Viking warriors fast), Iâm not saying they were copying. Iâm saying the production trends that were huge in the West between 2007â2010 made their way into K-pop from around 2010 to the mid-2010s; same tools, same techniques, just different packaging. Le Sserafimâs songs, for example, some of which have been accused of blatantly copying artists like RosalĂa or Tyla, are not only not copies, but theyâre also not any more influenced by trending Western artists than past K-pop songs were. Take Wonder Girlsâ âLike This,â which is clearly inspired by BeyoncĂŠ and songs like âGet Me Bodied.â The real difference is timing: Le Sserafim released their tracks while those Western trends were still current, with the original artists still making similar music. In contrast, Wonder Girls came out with âLike Thisâ years after that style had already peaked in Western radio, about six years after, to be exact, which is an eternity in pop music. Even visually, there were similarities. Because it's not that K-POP has become less visually crazy, pop music in the west also has calmed down a lot, and it's not what it was in 2008. Of course, K-pop has always emphasized visuals in a way thatâs distinct from the West, especially with group performances and choreo, but even then, some choices were clearly influenced by Western trends of the time, which were also maximalist, crazy, and extreme (Lady Gaga I am looking at you). Watch the Boom Boom Pow MV by The Black Eyed Peas and tell me that wouldnât fit right into K-pop in 2012. The lyrics, visuals, sound, all of it could easily be dropped into the K-pop scene. SM the "Trendsetter" And of course, I have to bring up SM. In the earlier years of K-pop, SM Entertainment was the leading company, and most others followed their lead. A ton of their hit songs from 1st gen to even now are remakes of Western songs. Not "inspired by." Remakes. (And what Iâm listing here isnât even 1/10 of them. SM and remakes go hand in hand.) SNSDâs Dancing Queen = Mercy by Duffy f(x)âs Hot Summer = Hot Summer by Monrose SHINeeâs Juliette = Deal With It by Jay Sean & Corbin Bleu TVXQâs Mirotic = Under My Skin by Sarah Connor SUPER JUNIORâs Twins (Knock Out) = Knockout by Triple 8 f(x)âs Shadow = Candy Man by Liz Primo Chani Miniâs Dream = My Turn to Cry by Olivia S.E.Sâs Dreams Come True = Rakastuin mä looseriin This wasnât plagiarism; they bought the rights, paid royalties, reworked the songs, and released them under their own artists. And honestly? Good for them, most of them were bangers. These were major releases. Now, other companies that couldnât afford to license full tracks simply followed the same sonic trends. Thatâs why you ended up with a bunch of songs that were clearly Western-inspired, because that was the blueprint. But again, with a delay. Most of these sounds hit K-pop at least 2â3 years after theyâd peaked in the West. Add another 1â2 years for those trends to really take hold across the broader K-pop industry, and you end up with essentially the same music, just in a different font, around 5 years later. Itâs obvious where inspiration came from. Lee Hyoriâs Get Ya is not a remake, but it does sound like a Britney Spears track. If someone who didnât know either song asked which one was Britney between Get Ya (2006) and Do Somethinâ (2004), they could honestly say âboth could be hers for all I knowâ and it wouldnât be a stretch. And I can keep going with examples. But BTS changed their sound And of course, I canât not bring up BTS and Blackpink, the main targets of slander when this topic comes up, though often for different reasons. BTS is the go-to example everyone brings up: "You can see the difference, their older songs didnât sound as westernized, they werenât in English, the sound was different. Now theyâre pandering to the West and chasing Western validation." But BTS is a tricky example for several reasons. First, they have an enormous discography. Like, a lot of songs. And across so many genres that itâs hard to make sweeping generalizations like âtheir old music was differentâ, because âdifferentâ from what? Even back in their earlier years, their music ranged from hip-hop and R&B to EDM to bright POP to ballads. On top of that, BTS has always been heavily involved in the creative process. Multiple members write and produce much of their own music, and they openly talk about their influences, like a bunch of artists do. Since 2013, theyâve consistently spoken about how they got into music, who inspired them, and how they approach songwriting, often mentioning Western hip-hop, R&B, and pop artists. Their inspirations were never a secret, and many of these inspirations were from the Western music scene. If we want to talk examples, take âDope,â a certified BOP (no disagreements accepted, lol). Itâs often hailed as a âclassic K-popâ song, personally I have not seen people claim that it is "westernized", but production-wise, itâs really not that far off from something like âGDFRâ by Flo Rida. The production styles, the brass, the energy, the hip-hop beats are clearly from the same trend pool. The real difference now is that BTS is no longer just part of K-pop; theyâre part of the global mainstream (the closest we have in K-pop). Their music is the trend. And naturally, that means their current releases sound more âmainstreamâ because they are mainstream, not only K-POP mainstream. Again, Dope is no less âWesternizedâ than Airplane (Iâm using a solo track here because I love the song. J-Hope has some of my absolute favorite solo work). Airplane exists in the same sonic universe as American hip-hop songs from that era, like Joey Bada$$âs Devastated. The English Trilogy And that brings me to the use of English and radio-friendly releases. Yes, Dynamite, Butter, and Permission to Dance were clearly created and promoted to drive eras that, based on the other songs and themes from that time, probably wouldnât have gained the same level of global popularity. It is what it is. I love Dis-ease, but realistically, thereâs no way they could have promoted a Korean-language track with a name like that on Western radio, during the pandemic, even though, in my opinion, itâs far more representative of their actual sound and the albumâs overall message. Yes, theyâre pandering to the West. And yes, good for them. K-pop has always pandered to whatever market it wanted to enter. I donât understand why anyone thought the U.S. would be treated differently. Every K-pop group releases Japanese songs, and those Japanese releases often sound noticeably different from their Korean ones. This has been discussed among fans, especially international ones, who often say they donât vibe as much with the Japanese tracks. And why is that? Because those songs are specifically written and produced to appeal to Japanese audiences, they follow trends, aesthetics, and sounds popular in Japan. Thatâs why idols also learn the language and perform in Japanese: itâs strategic. Itâs pandering. Itâs marketing. Why is it suddenly a problem when they do the same thing in English for the U.S. market? Why donât people complain when groups tailor their approach for Japan or China? Why is there no outrage over the use of bad and awkward Japanese in songs or shifts in production style for that market? Thatâs... suspicious. Thatâs weird. Thatâs hypocritical. That's borderline xenophobic. K-pop has always wanted to break into the Western market, but it just wasnât easy to do. Some groups released English songs in the past, and tried to promote in the west, but most of those kinda flopped and are forgotten now because they werenât that successful, and letâs be real, the translations of their songs were often terrible. Thereâs also a reason why back in 2nd gen, the choruses were things like âSorry Sorry,â âRing Ding Dong,â âBang Bang Bang,â and âDo You Wanna Pretty, Everybody Prettyâ These songs relied on catchy, repetitive English or nonsense hooks because they were designed to be accessible and ear-wormy no matter the language. Letâs not pretend this wasnât always the game plan. Now that itâs finally profitable to release English songs, like itâs always been profitable to release Japanese ones, of course, more groups are going to do it. Even more so when many smaller groups have bigger non-Korean fanbases. Blackpink the most "westernized" group Since their debut in 2016, Blackpink has been slammed as the definition of âwesternized K-pop,â even more so than BTS. And here's my question, to the many K-POP fans who hated BP's trajectory: How can Blackpink be a 2NE1 copy, with several of their early songs literally written for 2NE1 before the disbandment, and at the same time be accused of pandering to the West more than second-gen groups, while also being âtoo formulaicâ and âstagnantâ? Blackpink, like 2NE1 and Big Bang before them, are part of a long line of YG groups that were designed with global appeal in mind. YG has always wanted to break into the Western market, the difference is that Blackpink actually succeeded. Itâs not like Blackpink came out of nowhere with a never-before-seen concept. Their music is not some huge leap from what 2NE1 or Big Bang were doing before them. The structure, the drops, the raps, the choruses, all of it is built on the same sonic blueprint YG has leaned on for years. And in the K-POP sphere, YG artists were always very popular overseas, especially among Western fans. If anything, Blackpink is just the refined version of that formula, with bigger budgets, tighter visuals, and better marketing. The reason Blackpink sounds âwesternâ itâs because YGâs production style has always been heavily influenced by Western music, especially hip hop and maximalist electronic pop. This isn't new. It didnât start in 2016. YG just finally found the group that cracked the global market with that style. Their artists have always used a lot of onomatopoeias and English hooks. They were consistently more "edgy" than other K-pop acts, and definitely less PG, because they wanted to be seen as âhip-hopâ and âcoolâ, their words, not mine. Whatâs arguably changed the most is not the music, but the styling and the visuals. Earlier YG groups were known for experimental, even outlandish looks, and that kind of styling was part of what made them stand out, but it also alienated some, not all, Western audiences. Now with Blackpink (and the groups after them), YGâs visuals are way safer, fashion-forward, trendy, and more mainstream. Itâs not the music that shifted dramatically, itâs the packaging. The audio, if anything, is still very âYG,â and that sound just happens to align really well with what Western listeners already like. Even though many K-POP fans are not as excited anymore by the use of the formula. TLDR: If you donât want to read the whole thing Yes, K-pop has always been Westernized, especially musically; the big difference was always the image, not the audio. The genre was built on the back of Black American music, and major companies like SM were openly licensing, remaking, and adapting Western tracks long before global expansion was even on the table. To say that the music now sounds more Western is just kinda weird. Whatâs changed isnât the Western influence itself; itâs the timing. Earlier generations followed trends with a delay of a few years, repackaging songs very similar to Western ones, with a distinctly K-pop flavor, which is still very much the same (visual and dance focus, more out there than normal pop in many cases, trainee system, idol culture, etc.). Now, with real-time global access, K-pop no longer lags behind; it coexists and even co-influences. That makes the Western elements more visible, and for some longtime fans, more alienating. Add in the global chart success, and suddenly, what used to feel niche now feels mainstream, and for some, that stings. This isnât about only gatekeeping, though thatâs certainly part of it. Itâs about nostalgia, changing trends, and the discomfort that comes when your favorite âsecretâ becomes known. But letâs not rewrite history. K-pop has always played the marketing game. Itâs always adapted its sound, language, and image to target different markets, Japan, China, and now the U.S. (I feel that there is also a certain xenophobia there, but oh well.) They do not pander to the U.S or seek Western validations more than they pander to Japan and seek Japanese success. And let's not forget that in an industry like K-pop, which has always adapted to the markets it targets, using English makes sense if the goal is to go global, English is, after all, the global language. And if someone takes issue with that, I have to ask: why? K-pop has never been radically different from Western pop music in terms of sound or production. So why is English such a problem, but Japanese isnât? (again, this to me smells like xenophobia) And itâs also worth noting: Western pop itself has changed. A lot of longtime Western pop fans say that the music isnât musicing the way it used to. People in general have been underwhelmed by recent trends. In 2024, many finally felt like pop was back in form after years of stagnation. So it's not that K-POP now follows global trends, this is why you may find it underwhelming, it's that it follows current, underwhelming global trends, when in the past, the music for many undeniably was hitting harder. The disappointment isnât unique to K-pop fans. Itâs industry-wide. PS: Of course, Iâm generalizing entire industries here. What Iâm saying doesnât mean there werenât, or arenât, great artists and good music throughout all eras. Iâm also not claiming that one generation of music is better than another. Iâm talking about general fan sentiments, trends, and recurring themes. submitted by /u/Any-Listen4184 [link] [comments]
